Energytech Startups

00:00:00:01 - 00:00:22:18
Unknown
Transform your startup journey with the energy tech nexus. Connect with fellow founders. Access critical resources and be part of a community shaping the future of energy and carbon tech. Your path to building a Thunder Lizard starts here. Learn more at Energy Tech nexus.com. Hi everyone! Today we're back here at the Energy Tech Startups podcast. And I'm laughing because they were making fun of my intro here.

00:00:22:18 - 00:00:58:00
Unknown
But, I'm here together with Jason again and with some two very special guests, Siddharth Paul and Ashish Gupta, who are the co-founders at KP labs. Siddharth is also goes by Sid is the CTO and Ashish, he is the CEO. Welcome to the show. Thank you for the warm welcome. So. So tell us a little bit about, KP labs, how you came about founding this company together.

00:00:58:00 - 00:01:23:08
Unknown
And what are you really focused on? So KP labs, we have it as a innovation arm of our parent company, Conscious Planet, which was working on developing e methanol projects. And with e methanol, we were we are making progress. But then we came across a lot of innovation that we could do, and we had Sid on board our company last November timeframe.

00:01:23:10 - 00:01:46:19
Unknown
And then we started thinking about more about innovation front of our company. And in the innovation front. We saw that, critical metal recycling. So Sid has already some background on that front. Then we saw a great opportunity arising with all the things going on in the world, right? With all the geopolitics on, on critical metals and, tariffs, etc. coming up.

00:01:46:21 - 00:02:14:11
Unknown
So, so this seemed like a very nice innovation that we already have some, some progress already made. So we wanted to capitalize on that. And plus also develop this further so that we can take it to a commercial scale. So right now the technology for critical metal recycling has been demonstrated at lab scale, very small scale, but is very promising because it is, simple.

00:02:14:13 - 00:02:39:00
Unknown
Plus it uses all waste streams. So it is our CTO will go into more details of the technology, but it uses very nicely, waste stream from anaerobic digesters, which are ubiquitous these days, that you can see them everywhere because everyone is looking at biogas and you have a lot of incentives for bio gas in us as well, and other places in the world.

00:02:39:02 - 00:03:02:19
Unknown
So that's where it takes a waste stream from those anaerobic digesters and then uses it to extract critical metals from invest. E waste is electronic waste which can be a chips, it can be batteries, it can be all kinds of electronic waste that are coming. And of course, with the, AI revolution underway, we will have more and more e waste coming.

00:03:02:21 - 00:03:25:23
Unknown
And, so that is that is where I think we saw the nice fit. And so just to about one and a half months back, we launched KP labs officially and said, okay, here is we would focus more on innovation and, developing this, taking this technology from lab to pilot to commercial scale. Yeah. Tell me what's anyways like.

00:03:26:01 - 00:03:56:11
Unknown
And I know I have a computer, but it's like plastic and whatever semiconductor is. Right. It's like what what what makes this a challenging problem to deal with? Yeah. So I'll answer to your question. But, I would also like to give a little bit of background, like where it started. Basically it was during the days, of my college in IIT Gauhati, it's called Indian Institute of Technology.

00:03:56:13 - 00:04:30:14
Unknown
So there I was working with like water wastewater remediation technology using a biological process. And when I say biological, I mean these bacteria the from the wastewater treatment plant basically the sludge bacteria. And they have a good property of taking all those heavy metals converting into a non bioavailable source. So I was like okay if it can do this like so these are in maybe PPM or PPD level.

00:04:30:16 - 00:04:56:03
Unknown
So does that mean that is basically parts per billion or parts per trillion. Which is very low. If they can do it. Then I was also looking at different kind of other waste, to take care of. And it was in the year of like 2018, it was at that time when, no, not much geopolitics was around critical matters.

00:04:56:05 - 00:05:23:02
Unknown
So at the time, I was looking at different research topics, and I found out. This is interesting idea. Nobody looked at it, but I was reading research articles which gave statistics that eventually people will fight for this kind of critical matters, which is which we are in now, basically. So I decided to go into a higher concentration.

00:05:23:02 - 00:05:51:00
Unknown
Not not parts per billion or parts per trillion, rather ppm, which is parts per million, which is in the order of like MG per liter. So I decided to digest, drilling machine battery, which was just lying around. I was curious to figure out, like, what what can I do with it? And I used that battery to basically extract, nickel and cadmium, and it worked out.

00:05:51:02 - 00:06:18:00
Unknown
So I was like, oh, really? It it does work. But there was a challenge that it happens in a single beaker. But the bacteria eventually died because there was metal toxicity. So to answer to a question on the e-waste battery is one form of e-waste. There are other type of us, like PCB printed circuit boards or any other AI chip is also e-waste.

00:06:18:04 - 00:06:48:13
Unknown
And to, give you a data about like how AI chips are basically, a e-waste right now or I mean, I mean to say that the lifespan of the AI, chip is basically 1 to 3 years. The reason is basically they don't, get obsolete in terms of functionality, but rather a new advanced form of chip comes in the market, and it does.

00:06:48:16 - 00:07:14:09
Unknown
It doesn't make economical sense for the, I say the data centers to use them because the computing power is not that efficient. And so that's why they discard it. And every. So now we will have our first generation data center e-waste. And to my understanding and so for our customer discovery goals, we found out they don't know what to do.

00:07:14:09 - 00:07:38:17
Unknown
It. And there are a lot of data centers that is that are coming up and they don't know. So it's a bigger challenge. Some people try to transport it, but again, it's not like any other e-waste where you can simply or I mean to say, any other waste we can transport. There is a fire hazard associated with.

00:07:38:18 - 00:08:07:04
Unknown
So when you try to transport the batteries, they might leach out or they can cause like fire hazard while transportation. So you need permitting license for all those things. And it's not that you have to transport it for a short distance because these plants or the recycling plant, may be a state might have 1 or 2 at max.

00:08:07:06 - 00:08:39:19
Unknown
I might be wrong, but, the numbers are very less. But given said that our idea is not to bring the e-waste to our facility, but transport our module at that location because it doesn't involve any electricity or chemical. And also it can be done in a off grid way. Got it. Yeah, yeah, we recently we came across a logistics company that was shipping this, black mass all the way from us to India.

00:08:39:21 - 00:09:03:01
Unknown
So they are transporting this electronic waste, in form of black mass. So basically, why do they call it black mass? What is black? Looks back like charge. Yeah. Is it burned? Is it like, is it pyrolysis? Have they, like, merged it together? So basically, from my understanding, or how the word black masking is basically it, it it looks black.

00:09:03:03 - 00:09:31:10
Unknown
It's basically the cathode material. Let's, let's get the carbon black. Yeah. Because that's okay. Got iron. It has got different type of composition. For the, the most common one is NMC batteries, like nickel, manganese, cobalt. There are other form of lithium batteries like LSP, stuff like that. But our first target is NMC because there are two critical metals.

00:09:31:12 - 00:10:00:02
Unknown
Actually three. But, yeah, nickel cobalt and lithium. So, yeah. What's the most, valuable battery material to extract? Like it? I assume you get, like, separate streams out of it. So yes. They so not lithium is the most valuable. It's actually this other stuff. Nickel and cobalt for sure. Nickel. So Indonesia is a country that mines around maybe, 60 to 70%.

00:10:00:02 - 00:10:29:01
Unknown
They have the natural source. And recently they have imposed restriction on their supplies even to the US, given their importance not just in battery, but also in AI, chip manufacturing and defense equipments, and hydrogen production. So those are other like stuffs, which are gaining traction in terms of usage of those nickel. And to give you a more darker picture, I say is cobalt with that.

00:10:29:03 - 00:11:00:07
Unknown
So Republic of Congo has 90% of the reserves and China controls most of their natural source. So that way it becomes critical for us to recycle it because it doesn't have any natural source or it, it cannot literally compete with the production or the demand of those cobalt that is on. Yeah. So it sounds like a very logical thing to do is recycle and then you get access to cobalt and nickel.

00:11:00:07 - 00:11:20:23
Unknown
But you know, in America we don't really believe in recycling. I mean, we are like a very poor nation when it comes to like, recycling anything. You know, have you done some research on like other countries that maybe do this better, like I, you know, I can imagine in Europe they're better like systems for them to actually collect e-waste and regulations.

00:11:21:01 - 00:11:54:02
Unknown
So one of my friends is founder of another recycling company. So and he's right now setting up a plant like one hour drive from here. So he's, more into recycling lithium and stuff, but he's setting up a plant in Texas right now. Yeah. And also, to answer to your question, although USA is not after recycling, but if you look at the bigger picture, recycling is actually not just environmental commitment that you do is basically, self empowering.

00:11:54:04 - 00:12:18:14
Unknown
If you can recycle it, you basically can like do you become independent? Yeah. Basically you can become self-sufficient. Yeah. Yeah. So it's it our circularity is not about environmental commitment. But what are the challenges today in like so I'll tell you my real challenge. Oh my gosh. So I, I, I resuscitate old computers.

00:12:18:14 - 00:12:34:22
Unknown
I have a computer from like 2020 years. Many computer. Oh my gosh. Because I love them all. But their batteries die and so like, I'll go on YouTube and I'll, like, pull out the old battery and, I had this, like, flat, you know, packet that's starting to, like, bulge a little. And that's how, you know, you got to replace it.

00:12:35:00 - 00:12:50:09
Unknown
And you know what? I can't get rid of it. Like, I went like, where do you recycle this thing? And I either got to go out to like, the depot, which is like 40 minutes away from my house to, like, properly dispose of this thing that might explode. I went to Best Buy. They won't take batteries back.

00:12:50:11 - 00:13:06:05
Unknown
I, like, went to Home Depot. They were closed. I wasn't able to get rid of my battery, so it was literally no way for me to recycle my battery. And I looked at this and I said, look, I assume I'm an average person and I have an average person who's having this much trouble. They are not recycling their laptop battery.

00:13:06:06 - 00:13:23:06
Unknown
They are throwing it away. No. Yeah. What are people doing with it? They don't know what we can antacid or something. You can like dispose of. But maybe it's in this little packet and my battery was like three times the size of the packet. And so I didn't have to dispose of it. Right. Yeah. And so, so so that's a big challenge.

00:13:23:06 - 00:13:42:06
Unknown
Where do you dispose it off? Now the reality is the big batteries are like in cars and they're in, you know, home packs. Right. Like we're talking about a little 90 watt hour battery. But like you know how many personal devices are there a year where like what's going on with that. And I guarantee you most people throw all their laptop in the trash because like, where else are you going to put it?

00:13:42:10 - 00:13:58:04
Unknown
Right. There's no there's because there's no easy option noise. So it is it's noisy up. So the collection is like a little piece of the problem. And I imagine well I guess with cars me would be easier because like someone has to tow it to the crusher. But I don't know what you do for even like my little headphones.

00:13:58:04 - 00:14:11:20
Unknown
Right. It has like a little lithium battery in it and there's so many of these little things, you know, I know, I mean, in, in Europe, for example, you know, I lived in Norway, but you had these like, electronic stores where you could go and like dispose things off and specify, I wouldn't take my bag. Yeah. And that's what I was thinking.

00:14:11:20 - 00:14:40:10
Unknown
I was like, well, I wouldn't Best Buy take it. But, you know, they have an additional risk and it's no benefit to their risk for that. It's a fire risk cost. Yeah. You know and then they're taking on someone else's liability, you know. Well how do you deal with that kind of culture. And I guess you're you're dealing with maybe bigger batteries, and maybe going to corporations who have some kind of liability and, are, are regulated in a way that they can't just throw it in a landfill.

00:14:40:12 - 00:15:19:10
Unknown
Yeah. So, yeah, I'll, I'll give a little bit of background. I actually went to a Argonne National Lab on one of the conference is called resell. So, I got to know, like, how corporate people are trying to deal with those kind of stuff. So one of the companies, they were proposing that, companies like Apple or Tesla should have a QR code on every battery so that they can do blockchain tracking of where it's going, because at the end of the day, it will harm the not just environment, but actually we are losing those critical matters.

00:15:19:12 - 00:15:51:05
Unknown
Where the natural mines are depleting. So and you have to have a circular loop because how I say it is basically oil or energy has alternatives, but critical metals don't. If you are making a progress in in any technology, you will need critical matters specifically like think about nickel so you cannot unless you have a substitute for nickel, you have to rely on nickel.

00:15:51:05 - 00:16:22:21
Unknown
But you can get rid of gasoline. You can run your car on some other fuel. But if your car itself is relying on a nickel component, you cannot get rid of it. So if every gallon of ethanol produced can be tracked, then every battery produced can be tracked to. Yeah. So to answer to that question, that was a proposal from one of the, corporates or actually from I am not sure if it was a peer or not.

00:16:22:23 - 00:16:43:13
Unknown
But yeah, they were proposing to track down those and also bring it back to the loop. They are still figuring out, I'm not sure about the current status. But it was two years back when I went there and learned all these problems that even companies are thinking about having a QR code on them. It. Yeah, yeah.

00:16:43:13 - 00:17:05:19
Unknown
So I think you're right that many people don't have option to dispose of. Their batteries become little downstream. They are people who are already collecting some batteries and then converting it to black mass, basically grinding it to get there. And and they are shipping like are ship of our of these things being shipped to other countries like China and India, for treatment.

00:17:05:19 - 00:17:30:08
Unknown
And typically their, those treatments are more environmentally taxing. They are involve pyro metallurgy or hydro metallurgy. Pyro metallurgy is more common. What is that? Yeah. It's like basically burning the e-waste or the black mass so that you can get rid of the carbon and you end up with a Coke or, a mix, metal. Yeah. So, so that is very, very environmentally taxing.

00:17:30:10 - 00:18:02:11
Unknown
But the way we are thinking is, basically democratizing, recycling the by this, I mean, we will empower the recyclers to actually extract that, metal from the e-waste instead of instead of them sending it to a centralized facility. We can send our module there and they can do it without any dependance or on electricity or using any or expensive chemical.

00:18:02:13 - 00:18:29:15
Unknown
In this process, they can use local resource like sewage sludge. So our product will be mostly in the form of metal sulfide. So, so we're, you know, you're still a pretty early company, coming up with this concept, an idea based on a research that you did, back in India, where are you today and what are kind of the next steps for you to actually commercialize this technology?

00:18:29:17 - 00:19:10:16
Unknown
Yeah. So right now we are raising fund for our first pilot cum, commercial plant in Houston area. Typically our one module would cost like 1.5 million, starting from the, digestion of an electronic waste to getting a metal, sulfide, liquor or powder and, and and. Yeah. So that's our typical point. But eventually we do want to expand it to different nations as well, because it actually helps the community or the nation to become self-sufficient on at least the metal, part of it.

00:19:10:16 - 00:19:31:18
Unknown
Yeah. So, so you said you're looking for funding or are you looking for, like, a customer who would be willing to do that pilot or both? Actually, both. We did we did talk with few customers or partners who are willing to help us do it. So I went to Gordon Research Conference and just yesterday came back and I got good, feedback.

00:19:31:18 - 00:20:02:04
Unknown
And they were interested in talking with me more, especially the national labs. And, because they're also struggling and they, they, they were looking it in a different way with other people or other industries were doing, like till now. So basically, they like the idea that it's democratizing the whole structure, not relying on a single, recycling plant or a single industry.

00:20:02:04 - 00:20:27:03
Unknown
Basically, they can themselves do it at their location. So now we are a Green Town Labs member. And then, we are also looking to rent lab space, perhaps at bio wells or Q bio. So those are all in the plants, and we also talking to another big digester folks who can perhaps where we can provide as the sludge, the stream material that we need for this thing.

00:20:27:05 - 00:20:54:22
Unknown
Plus, we can, we can also look at options of co-locating this plant where we get that stream from another big digester. And, and you said the output was a meddlesome fate. What is that? Is that salt River like? What does it look like? A it looks like a powder. But the application of it is in, like, solar cell manufacturing or lithium sulfur batteries, which is the next generation batteries.

00:20:54:22 - 00:21:24:11
Unknown
So sorry. So like we got this powder that comes out and then we give that to someone who wants to convert it into a more refined yes version. So yeah, we our first target is not to have a high purity standard because to achieve that level, it it might not be possible at the site itself, but at least it will help help the recyclers or the whole ecosystem to transport those kind of stuff without any compliance or heavy.

00:21:24:17 - 00:21:49:23
Unknown
So yeah, basically they end up paying more in logistical cost and all those compliances, if they don't, extract it, then the location itself. So yeah. Are you ready to lead the decarbonization charge? Energy Tech Nexus is your platform for growth, offering unique resources and expertise for energy and carbon tech founders. Join us at energy Tech nexus.com and start building your thunder.

00:21:50:00 - 00:22:07:09
Unknown
Is it so? And metal sulfides are typically like in in the mines as well. You get sometimes metal sulfide. So in which you purify and then get the okay. So this is something they already know how to handle, how to handle. And are they all like mixed together like nickels in with the cobalt. And then how do they separate them out?

00:22:07:14 - 00:22:28:09
Unknown
I'm just curious. So yeah, that part we are still figuring out. We have a patent, pending technology on that. Mostly it can be a membrane. And instead of, like, iron, iron separation, which other companies are trying, we we will go for solute solute separation because these are particles just. Well, yeah. What does that mean. Explain that to us.

00:22:28:10 - 00:23:02:02
Unknown
Yes. Yeah, I know it's a little technical, but when I say iron and separation, that means, it's it's not salt anymore. It's it's in aqueous phase, and they're just floating around. So, like, nickel can be separated from cobalt based on some, like, electrical charge or other, other form of technology can be used, but those are in research state or are in like IP state, which are not available in public.

00:23:02:04 - 00:23:33:08
Unknown
Some companies I know are doing in that route, but that involves high CapEx oriented plant. It cannot it cannot be done it of off grid location. Our approach is different to convert it into a solute instead of iron, so that on the site itself, without any electricity, we can do it. And it's it's like an easy way to tackle all these complex, inputs, which can be different.

00:23:33:09 - 00:24:02:01
Unknown
And so the battery chemistry itself is too complex. And that's why we are simplifying the chemistry at the site. And the transportation also becomes easier. So yeah. All right. I'm not sure if I was good. Yeah I gave the right answer. But yeah. So as you tell us a little bit about your background and what you know, and how you both met and what attracted you to say, you know, what we should partner together and actually go into building this business.

00:24:02:03 - 00:24:25:12
Unknown
Yeah. So my background I have a chemical engineering background. So I have a bachelor's. Master's in chemical engineering. I'm a Gator University of Florida graduate. So after, after that, I moved to Houston. So from Florida to Houston and, I've been in Houston since then. For instance, chemical engineers, they come here. It's like what? I guess.

00:24:25:14 - 00:24:47:04
Unknown
But surprisingly, when I was doing my chemical engineering there, I was thinking of all places I could go after my body. I never thought of Houston, and I and my I went to my first interview, got selected and came to Houston. Yeah. We love our campus. Yeah. So, yeah, I started working for KBR and then, in the EPC industry.

00:24:47:06 - 00:25:13:19
Unknown
So and because of my background and I was given like first of a kind projects to work on. And since then I've been involved in many first of a kind projects. So my very first project was converting biomass to ethanol. So it was very at that time, it was like, okay, it is going to revolutionize everything. And that all those options where people are taking big after they were planning, okay, we built the first plant, then second plant, third plant for plant.

00:25:13:21 - 00:25:39:14
Unknown
And since then I have involved since 2008. So, almost so many years and all these years I have looked at several such ambitious projects that, okay, I want to build the first one. And before we build the first one, they already have plans to build N of them. And we're hoping that it will succeed. And then I have seen some of them falter, fail, especially in this phase of biomass.

00:25:39:14 - 00:26:09:13
Unknown
Or take some waste and convert it to like a liquid fuel or liquid. Some like power or urea or ammonia or methanol. So all these projects I have seen very closely and I've seen our first hand experience of seeing them, stumble upon some difficulties and fail. So, so with all that right, and background, I, I have scaled up many technologies as well, like they were taking from pilot scale to commercial scale.

00:26:09:15 - 00:26:30:18
Unknown
And, with that background, I saw good opportunities in this energy transition space. My last role was a process manager for energy transition. And before that I was a process director at another company. So with all that background, I saw that, okay, now is the time. Then, after all these failures, there was a time for some successes.

00:26:30:20 - 00:26:53:06
Unknown
So that's how I want to catalyze that success. And then I want to grow some technologies which I see have real potential. And with that, goal in mind, I, I launched A Conscious Planet together with web design based in Chicago. And, we, we are looking at imagine all that time because imagine all is a potential hydrogen carrier.

00:26:53:06 - 00:27:15:23
Unknown
And in our opinion, it is the, it has the bright future still, it would have it there would have been a stampede for that, given if the International Maritime Organization adopted the low carbon standard or low carbon regulations, then there would be a stampede for that people to rushing to make low carbon national plants. But that got pushed back.

00:27:15:23 - 00:27:34:22
Unknown
Yes, but there is still a lot of future bound around it. But now when we came back, we when we had sit on board, we met him at the IMF. So I met him at the I and we had we started talking and I immediately got interested and I thought I could use his expertise on the biogenic CO2 side for methanol.

00:27:35:00 - 00:28:03:00
Unknown
And that's how we onboarded him. But then after discussions, we found, okay, no, he has even like this application is more relevant these days given these challenges these days. And that's how we started thinking in this direction and said that, okay, this might have a faster path to commercialization. So we are looking at this K.P. labs and we are working with said, we have a couple of other students involved in this thing, and we have our rice rice grads involved in this.

00:28:03:02 - 00:28:25:01
Unknown
So we are making good progress and we are getting good attention on this thing. So we are talking to all different players, venture capital folks and others, and they are all showing some interest in a lot of interest in this, in this, in this space. So that is encouraging. And then we have the Houston ecosystem is about including you all at the ATM network, the guy and give good guidance to us.

00:28:25:01 - 00:28:55:02
Unknown
And that's how we are taking this this challenge head on. And then I think we have a good, breakthrough in form of the, published work that the state has already done and we have already filed for patents, and we are looking for more of those coming. So hopefully we can scale it and take it to the next level so that we have a, kind of, what I say is that we going towards an energy abundance future and to enable that energy abundance future, we need critical metals.

00:28:55:04 - 00:29:16:15
Unknown
So and that's all like said say that it is now it's not only like you are causing harm to the environment, but you are losing a precious commodity which you could use it for different purposes. You know, yeah, I know, it's great to hear your story and how you guys met at the iron, you know, but five, six years ago that I don't didn't exist.

00:29:16:15 - 00:29:39:06
Unknown
I know, and and it's just what having iron Greentown labs, you know, energy tech nexus and like, just a community that we've built in Houston over the past couple of years that allows innovators to meet each other and say, you know what? I think, we can build a business together on this, build a company on this. I think that has really accelerated the kind of startups, that we're seeing.

00:29:39:06 - 00:30:00:10
Unknown
So it's it's good to hear that and good to hear that feedback. And then on top of that, being in Houston, building an industrial business, is definitely an advantage because all the clients, the partners, the, I wouldn't say the investors, but like, the clients, the partners, the facilities are here. People are very knowledgeable about what you guys are building.

00:30:00:12 - 00:30:37:12
Unknown
Yeah, definitely. Houston is the heart tech capital, for sure. Just like Silicon Valley is the soft capital, you can say. So a lot of that, like what have you found to be like the most challenging in your journey so far? Yeah. So I think so it is more like people, like if you look at the energy transition space itself, like people have got burned many times with some projects and then from that they are taking thinking that, okay, no, it is has made no progress.

00:30:37:14 - 00:30:59:21
Unknown
So why to invest in this space or why this time to shy away from these things. So that is I think that is kind of in a way a challenge because, that is, and I don't blame them because they have been burned before, but that doesn't make us think, like, okay, no is no progress happening. Progress is happening.

00:30:59:21 - 00:31:23:21
Unknown
People are learning and everything takes time to establish. And that is where I think people get too optimistic and I guess too aggressive in their goals that okay, what what I like to compare is like all these energy transition stuff you take like, you have, like even the traditional oil and gas industry took decades to establish.

00:31:23:23 - 00:31:48:07
Unknown
It was not like, okay, suddenly it got established. It took decades to establish. So all these new tech and when you come in, right, new tech or new, they take some time to establish a little some patience. And that is not there. And plus the support system that we need to to kind of, topple, topple a reigning monster, which is like oil and gas.

00:31:48:07 - 00:32:14:06
Unknown
Right. Is is is not it still needs more support because oil and gas has had support and they are entrenched because after such a long period of time, there was a lot of things going on. But to support new technologies, we need more support, more resources to be made available to for these newer technologies to grow because they are competing with something which has been established over decades.

00:32:14:08 - 00:32:42:10
Unknown
And that's where, and people need more effort and more support from, from even the government on these, like, we know that SBIR, SDR had helped many technologies, those grants and the government grants, but now they are being pushed back and that all those things makes startups life a little more challenging. And plus the investor support because they, they they see from previously they get it didn't work that time.

00:32:42:10 - 00:33:03:23
Unknown
So this time also it will not work. So that is a big challenge to change that mindset also, when do you, do you think this is a big question here? Do you think the lack of support is is is a US challenge or is it a global challenge? It is more like a it is more a global challenge.

00:33:04:05 - 00:33:30:20
Unknown
Okay. Yeah. And plus but there are people like, moving much faster in other places of the world, like in China, in India there are people working much faster. And that is and us things have gotten pushed back because of increased focus on traditional fuels, fossil fuels. Now, more support. But if you look at, for instance, in India, there is a lot of support for newer technologies.

00:33:31:01 - 00:33:55:14
Unknown
Yeah. And, if you look at the recent budget that was produced, that, Indian finance minister put in the parliament is that they allocated what, 20,000 crores for carbon capture coz, which is unprecedented. I think that is the largest, one of the largest investments the government has doing in India. That okay, they are allocating so much money for the US in India.

00:33:55:14 - 00:34:17:00
Unknown
So they are things moving faster in some other places of the world. Like in China, there is a methanol plant like we are talking about emitting all through conscious planet. But there is a China, there is a imaginal plant coming up now in a few months from now, which is taking, CO2 from biomass and renewable power, hydrogen and converting it to imaginal.

00:34:17:02 - 00:34:35:20
Unknown
So they are ahead of us. So we don't have a imaginal plant currently in the US. So yeah. So like where I'm going with this question and obviously you guys have lives here and stuff, but like why not go to a place like India and and secure that financing if that's where the capital is and if that's where there is an active market.

00:34:35:22 - 00:34:56:06
Unknown
Now that's true. And we we are we are open to those options. We are looking at those options. We put in a proposal, some last year we put in a proposal for a methanol plant in India as well as in Europe. And but as we scale it and we where we see the best fit, we will go there.

00:34:56:08 - 00:35:18:08
Unknown
So that is our approach. That is our mantra. So in, for instance, they are in us, there might be some, permitting issues and that can take a long time. If that becomes a hurdle for us, we might move to, get faster, permitting done in India. And build our pilot there itself and to prove it and then bring it back here.

00:35:18:10 - 00:35:39:08
Unknown
Those options we are still considering. So what have you found the most helpful as you've kind of been on this journey? I see you guys around in a lot of events. You come to our fundraising office hours. I think you guys are doing all the right things and just being very active and making those connections. Going to different conferences.

00:35:39:10 - 00:36:07:20
Unknown
What have you found to be the most helpful, either resource or just in general in, moving your idea forward? Yeah. So for me, I come from like an environmental engineering background. So whenever I talk with people, I always talk in technical terms, which they think I'm crazy. So, when I came in us, I always, wanted to be in a area where it is easier to build.

00:36:07:20 - 00:36:43:09
Unknown
And Texas is the state where you can build things unlike any other state. It's, the Texas law. Are people are there to help you out in terms of building physical stuff. So I ended up in University of Houston for a as a student, but never completed. So but I did get a chance to, like brainstorm my ideas with the UTS Red labs, that is the entrepreneurship division of University of Houston, where they tie up with Rice University as a rice alliance.

00:36:43:09 - 00:37:15:11
Unknown
And during summer accelerator program. And I was in, in, I was one of the cohort, probably in 2023, if I remember correctly. So, yeah. So we they liked my idea and, so they decided to put my Beto deck, in Rice Alliance YouTube channel, and it's still there. And the company name was different. It was not registered, but it has got Grady Green, a funny name, but, yeah.

00:37:15:12 - 00:37:45:01
Unknown
So that helped me out, in terms of how to speak with people, especially investors or customers so that I can talk in their language instead of being just a researcher. So, yeah, that helped me out a lot in Houston. Ecosystem is pretty good. I would think that, because, when and all the Greentown Labs, the iron, you folks, they are all supportive and that you feel like a part of a community.

00:37:45:03 - 00:38:07:08
Unknown
So that is very good. And I think that is missing in some other cities of us, like in, like in what I've seen in other places like Chicago or others, there's not that much of a focus there. But Greentown Labs being here and others, that helps. Good. Yeah. When you're out there kind of engaging with, investors now, like, what do you what do you find?

00:38:07:08 - 00:38:35:16
Unknown
They, misunderstand most about what you're trying to do. So the most common is, they think we're just serving the environment, just like as we started here. Like, nobody cares about recycling. But if if we dig in deeper, we understand why recycling actually. And pursue. And that's what I have been emphasizing. It basically and, become like makes you more self-sufficient.

00:38:35:18 - 00:39:06:23
Unknown
And also you can do like detach yourself from all the global geo geopolitics here. Oh, you know, what will make you sell it is say it's bad for the environment, but then you can sell it. Then people will buy it. Yeah. So you know this isn't April 1st. That's a two month sort of. No. Nobody. You know I think it's it's like you know, it's so, so yeah I think the, the smart thing these days is that don't call it climate.

00:39:07:00 - 00:39:25:12
Unknown
Right. Exactly. Call it energy tech. And oh, I wonder how we came up with the name for the company in the podcast. I. No, no, no, exactly. It's, it's I think one of the challenges for like, pitching a climate company and we see this with pitches all the time is like, you have your classic pitch where it's like, what's the market and what's the problem?

00:39:25:14 - 00:39:45:19
Unknown
And I think a lot of times in energy and climate, it's easy to say the problem is a societal problem, right? It's like the problem is we have too much waste. The problem is, oh, like we see this, this insurance company has a problem is the ocean is rising. That's not the economic problem to the buyer, right?

00:39:45:23 - 00:40:05:08
Unknown
I okay, who cares about who cares about this? And sometimes, like it's too easy to to miss the forest for the trees of like the problem is people want to buy minerals. Yeah, right. That's the problem. And the same thing there. When I was looking at this insurance company yesterday, I was like, the problem is people want to preserve the value of their land, right?

00:40:05:08 - 00:40:31:03
Unknown
And so it's sometimes it's easy to get stuck in, like, what do we all have as a collective problem when it's not it really the problem is what is the thing people are paying money for? And unfortunately no one few people pay money to reduce carbon or to recycle. I would be angry if I had to pay to recycle like, oh my gosh, you know, and I think that's the, the, the challenge of the is framing like, what?

00:40:31:08 - 00:40:50:06
Unknown
What is it we're actually doing? Because you know, we're we're in it because recycling should be good, right? Yeah. But the real answer is we're doing it because someone wants to buy minerals, right? I was in Japan for a work trip, and then they are. The recycling is crazy. So if I had any piece and then I was like, where do I throw this?

00:40:50:06 - 00:41:09:02
Unknown
I had no clue. Where do I throw this? Any, any piece of waste? I would not have a clue where I was when I think about the buckets. Multiple buckets. Oh, wow. Yeah. For wet waste, dry waste and for recyclables. And this and plastics, everything. Like, it's like so many buckets. I was like, totally confused. Yeah, I know it is.

00:41:09:04 - 00:41:30:23
Unknown
But yeah, Japan is so big on recycling. And compared to that we here in Texas are so, yeah, so wild. But I think it's like our mindset here is the land of the abundance. We have so much land we don't need to recycle because we have abundant resources. Where Japan is, is used to living centuries in this very small thing strip of land, and everything is very limited.

00:41:31:05 - 00:41:56:16
Unknown
So it's just kind of like culturally how we've developed the United States of America and how other countries work. But yeah, they started an imperial empire to get more resources. So there's reasons you don't do that. Yeah, exactly. Well, yeah. That's not getting done. Yeah. I mean, talking about critical matters. At one point we were thinking that just like, let's let's, extract it and store it at our facility.

00:41:56:18 - 00:42:32:06
Unknown
So just think about the stock market. Like if you store lithium or nickel at your place, maybe one case, for example, you sell it after a year, definitely will earn more than any other business. Just holding it. Just holding it. Yeah. So the pro if I remember correctly, at one point. So right now copper, it's skyrocketing. The reason is the data centers needed for electrification, the energy transition needs it in their equipments.

00:42:32:06 - 00:42:58:13
Unknown
The defense needed for the drone. So if you hold copper like extract copper and hold it without even selling it, just sell it after one year and you'll be you'll be recycled. Yeah. Basically this is what I'm hearing. So yeah. And I think what I'm like, you know, I'm like re marketing, rebranding your company. I think instead of focusing on like recycling, I think you should focus on like, mining critical minerals.

00:42:58:13 - 00:43:27:02
Unknown
Yeah. That's what you're doing. It doesn't matter how you mining it, but you actually giving people access to critical minerals. And that's economic conversation. Yeah. Basically urban mining. Yeah. Urban mining. Yeah. Urban mining I love it. Yeah. Just wrap it up in that and just say, you know, don't talk to us about like what we're doing in the background because, you know, because I think recycling obviously people's mind goes into, oh, your motivation is save the planet, but that doesn't earn me money because that's people have been dinged in the climate tech space.

00:43:27:03 - 00:43:48:14
Unknown
Exactly. You know, rubber mining is our term that we consider urban mining, I like that, yeah. That's good. But as people know, I play video games in this video game I'm playing right now is called Frostpunk, which is about like the world post a climate event. And all the mining is like mining old rail cars or Reinhardt mining or like city components to get like all the materials to recycle them.

00:43:48:16 - 00:44:13:09
Unknown
So it's it's definitely those like guys out there like the it's it's like mining the landfill. Yeah. Yeah. It's there. Yeah. So tell us, you know, what you're looking for right now, if there are any, investors, potential customers listening or just anyone in the ecosystem who wants to support you, what? I kind of your, asks, and then how could they reach out to you?

00:44:13:11 - 00:44:32:04
Unknown
Yeah, sure. We are raising our seed round. Like I said, we launched it, about one and a half months back, and, so we are raising for the seed round, it looks like, citing that what we are, the interest we are getting. So we are raising for a seed round so that we can scale this, as fast as we can.

00:44:32:06 - 00:45:06:11
Unknown
And, we are we have become Greentown Labs member. We are looking for lab spaces, etc., and also looking at working on patents and willing to employ some people to get it further. And like Jason, you mentioned, we are also looking at the option of a pilot in in other countries in India or other places. Yeah. To summarize, I would say, in a university setting, it would be like we are definitely looking for Pi who can help us with those new grants or SBIR type, although SBA is at pause now.

00:45:06:11 - 00:45:31:20
Unknown
But yeah, we can still work together. So with national labs, that's what I'm trying the same thing. And apart from that, definitely corporate can help us in getting those anaerobic sludge. Who who are in, Houston area that can help us in getting that sulfide stream, which we need it. And and of course, the e-waste recycling facility as well.

00:45:31:22 - 00:46:00:02
Unknown
And those are the two things for sure. And apart from that and the investment that we need to raise, that kind of, pilot scale. Yeah. Good. And where can they find you? Do they hang out at the iron, or do they find they find you out? So, yeah, iron is definitely one. But yeah, our, we have our LinkedIn, email ID, as well as our website.

00:46:00:02 - 00:46:12:01
Unknown
It's listed in there. Just go to JP labs and they'll find us or Conscious planet.com/kp labs. Yeah okay. Awesome. Thank you so much. Thanks for joining. Thank you.