Energytech Startups

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Unknown
Energy tech doesn't move forward alone, and neither should you. Energy tech cipher brings together the founders, investors, operators and corporates shaping what's next. From innovation trends to data driven insights. This is where the ecosystem connects, collaborates and moves. Find your place in the ecosystem at energy Tech cipher.com. That's cipher as in Sci, pH. E.R. where we bring the community together online and in person.

00:00:28:19 - 00:00:44:07
Unknown
Welcome back to the show. We're here with Gary Martin, CEO and founder of Skin Ninja, and we're excited to have him here to talk to us about everything from Soc2 to just how you manage and orchestrate security and why that's important for the energy industry. So, Gary, tell us about the the problem. We were really trying to sell.

00:00:44:07 - 00:01:11:06
Unknown
Awesome. Well, first of all, thank you for having me. So we've noticed a lot of, industries that a lot of a lot of how do I say a lot of the compliance complexities come from the amount of work that needed to be done to do it right? And so me having my experience with ExxonMobil, seeing it firsthand with the penetration testing and helping get all the documentation and things ready for those compliances, has always been, you know, a headache, right?

00:01:11:08 - 00:01:33:20
Unknown
And so we decided, me and my co-founders decided to go ahead and start this to get to the point where we could do something on the lines of making it easier, automated all, automate all of this, especially with the age of AI. Right? So now that we have the AI, we can kind of automate and and link these controls automatically to our larger length of remediations and findings and evidence and things like that automatically took controls.

00:01:33:20 - 00:02:03:04
Unknown
Right. And I think that was the biggest thing. And so we've gone through like the, the competitors that we have like Vincent grabbing them. And so like Bantam for example, they have some plug ins and some connectors, but you still have to do all the manual work of like the creating the documentation and all that stuff. And so what we did is we tried to completely automate that whole system, and then tied it all into the vulnerability management side of it, which is our primary focus of the application that we built is the vulnerability side.

00:02:03:06 - 00:02:24:08
Unknown
So talk to us about that vulnerability side. What do you mean by that? Yeah. So I mean even things like today like the with with Mythos and Glass being coming out, it's a big thing. They're finding findings that are 20 years old that nobody ever found. And they're serious vulnerabilities like Firefox. I think recently they just had a launch, an update with 127 vulnerabilities.

00:02:24:08 - 00:02:49:02
Unknown
That myth has found that nobody ever found. Including some of the giants, like tenable and stuff. Right. So we are tenable partners. We do work with those kind of scanners. And so having the ability to, scan and find those vulnerabilities in an autonomous and continuous way and then also remediate and update that software without taking the critical infrastructures down is kind of what our focus was.

00:02:49:02 - 00:03:03:23
Unknown
And so that was kind of our first couple pilots was let's go ahead and figure out a way to do this to where we have a man in the middle, you know, scenario, because we still wanted that early on with AI and now I think it's gotten better where it's not so bad like you can do. Hey, here's a plan.

00:03:04:01 - 00:03:24:02
Unknown
Execute the plan if it fails, like roll back the configs, roll back the settings. And that was a that's a Cisco network engineering thing from my past. When I did CCNa and CCnp stuff, it was you can write configs, test everything. But then, like or build the configs, test everything, and then write them. And if they didn't work, you just rebooted the machine.

00:03:24:02 - 00:03:43:01
Unknown
All the configs wiped out, and they went back to the old all the configs. So we kind of wanted to build that kind of same pipeline, right? So, but having the continuous watching and I think we're going to have to get to live time and so or live like almost immediate. Right. And so and I'll touch back on that.

00:03:43:01 - 00:04:19:07
Unknown
But we're building a new agent, a genetic scanner that's AI enriched by. We have, a system that's powered by 7 or 18 GPU servers that we got from Nvidia, from a partnership with Nvidia, Microsoft, and those scan that scanners really fast because of those GPUs. But we're able to feedback to fine tuned learned models and small language models, even to be able to get that data and, and build those vulnerabilities and threat made or what is it called, like your threat landscape.

00:04:19:07 - 00:04:43:09
Unknown
Like your threat. Well, you what the picture looks like, right? What your threat picture looks like and say, okay, this is a high vulnerability. It needs to be remediated immediately or like, okay, this is a lower one, like critical high, medium low kind of situations. Yep. Exactly. And then it can patch it up too or. Yeah. So it actually what's the what it'll do is it'll generate the script for the batch and then allow the user to execute the script.

00:04:43:11 - 00:05:16:15
Unknown
If you give it authentication to execute the script on your hab on your behalf, then you can just execute the script. Okay. Interesting. Yeah. And I can imagine this is becoming like more and more important with time, right? Because now everything is digitalized, there's AI in everything and everything's kind of interconnected. So what are you seeing, you know, from your experience working in corporate, you know, as these big corporations are also letting in, you know, ChatGPT and Claude, like, how do they control all the those vulnerabilities?

00:05:16:17 - 00:05:40:15
Unknown
Because they often don't lie in their system. They're kind of outside their systems. Right? Yeah. And so there's a there's a third party injections. Right. So they come from the vendors and those it's very important for those vendors to also have those tools in place that protect their systems. And so they're companies like like ExxonMobil for example. If you want to work with them, they they require you to provide proof that you've done this stuff right, that you have done XYZ.

00:05:40:17 - 00:05:58:02
Unknown
Some other companies they don't like, just tell us, cool. That's enough liability for us. But like Exxon's like, no, we want proof. Like give me a report, give me certification, things like that. Right. And so when you're in that space, like as a medium size vendor or somebody trying to work with an enterprise client, you want to be able to have that proof, right.

00:05:58:02 - 00:06:14:18
Unknown
And so we help provide that for those customers. Is that what Soc2 is? Because I don't actually know. Well, now. And anyway, so you just get to yeah. So Soc2 is like well soc2 is one thing. Right. So we'll talk to like this. All right. Cool. You've got these policies in place and your follows. You're following these policies and and you're doing these things that help protect the system.

00:06:14:18 - 00:06:28:03
Unknown
And you have all this stuff built out and you're following. There's a whole list of controls I've used. Like I don't even quote me on this, but I think it's like 100 controls or something. There's a lot. Right. And so we have this dashboard that has all these controls, and you got to map out all the controls and link them to evidence.

00:06:28:03 - 00:06:43:16
Unknown
And then once you have that all in place, then you're like, all right, cool. Like, now we've got everything in place. That's the audit ready kind of checklist that you can. Yeah that's a readiness. And then so with Soc2 then you have to get a certifier that comes in and they do a 90 day monitoring on that system.

00:06:43:16 - 00:06:58:10
Unknown
And so they literally watch what you're doing for 90 days. They're in the whole system like gives you like a team of 7 or 8 people okay. And they come in and they watch the whole system for 90 days. And okay, you're following these policies. You're doing what needs to be done. You're certified. That's the soc2 certification. Yeah.

00:06:58:14 - 00:07:16:20
Unknown
Okay. So you actually have people coming in. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. To to certify those. Interesting. You have a partner that we work with that does all the certifications. We don't do the certification ourselves. We just help with the readiness. They use our platform to help CERT to help certify the readiness. And how often do you have to renew that is that soc2 is usually yearly.

00:07:17:01 - 00:07:33:00
Unknown
So, and but here's my thing with it. Right. And this is what, like you guys heard me talk about before, is that's kind of the problem with all this is like once a year. Yeah. Well, once a year, everyone's like, oh, we got to go. We got suck tos coming up. Let's go run and fix everything. All right.

00:07:33:00 - 00:07:50:08
Unknown
Cool. Now we're good. All right, all right, here we go. Whereas we were trying to make it to where it's like, okay, now you've got soc2 in place and every day you're getting a scan on those notifications or on the, on those controls, and you get a notification if there's something off. Right. Okay. Something changed, like go check it out, but it's up to you, right?

00:07:50:08 - 00:08:07:09
Unknown
You don't you're not required to. But we're trying to create this, like, stamp is like this stamp of approval, like a seal from us. It's like, hey, if you have to scan into a Soc2 certification stamp on your site, then, like, you're on your, you know, company, then like you're knowing that you have a continuous monitoring on that soc2 compliance.

00:08:07:09 - 00:08:24:07
Unknown
Right. Because I think to me it's like that's the important it's not that I do it once a year because anybody could do it once a year. It's 365, three six. That's the real value is. And the reason I don't do it is because it used to be too hard. Yeah, right. And too hard, too time consuming. You said when you when you do the first and there's this little thing.

00:08:24:07 - 00:08:47:00
Unknown
Right. You have anywhere from 7 to 12, 15 people involved in the, in the, in the process. And when you're that many people, that's a lot of money. So yeah, I was thinking, I think I saw on the news, recently, like with all the proliferation of just the five coding apps. Right? And like, you're not they're not necessarily designed for security because they're prototyping tools.

00:08:47:00 - 00:09:08:17
Unknown
Right. And, that no one's, you know, no one's monitoring them or bring, you know, checking, when a consumer kind of uses that app, it's unclear because the apps look very professional, like if the security even exists. And so I imagine as, as people look at like, you know, integrating or connecting with their systems, that becomes a more proliferated risk.

00:09:08:19 - 00:09:36:07
Unknown
As an end user. Right? Right. Yeah. Is there anything you're able to do to support that, or is that more about supporting the vendor? No. So we are we have the ability to review the software. Right. So like we do check for packages in your software, this is hey, there's an issue here. Actually I think we were I was just looking at a scan last night where one of our scans found, like, three malware, findings and some npm packages in a react application.

00:09:36:10 - 00:09:57:21
Unknown
Right. And so you can find those. But almost any scanner should be able to find those, right? Those are very, very basic things. But the tough part is knowing not to install this package or to install a package. Right. So like the exons of the world do really good of like I have a security team that you can only install these versions cause we've already checked them.

00:09:57:23 - 00:10:16:00
Unknown
But like there's been instances where I think recently there was a package that like 90% of react websites use. Yeah. And they got installed by all these people that were doing AI automatic updates to their website. And it's like, oh, now you just install the vulnerable package and now your stuff is, you know, yeah, I'll be honest.

00:10:16:00 - 00:10:33:23
Unknown
Like we probably did that check on that. Yeah. But I mean, that's what you do if you use tools like GitHub and you. Oh yeah. Yeah, there's the warning alerts and all that stuff in place and your severity. But then. Yeah. And then when you have all that set up then like usually like okay cool, you've got the vulnerability.

00:10:33:23 - 00:10:49:04
Unknown
But then knowing and understanding how to do overrides and things like that. So like that's the other part with the vibe coding right. When you're I've got, you know, a lot of times like it doesn't think about that. It just goes, let me write the code. It works. And then you're going, it will like then you have to know it's a person that's telling it what to do.

00:10:49:04 - 00:11:08:03
Unknown
That's orchestrating the code of like, hey, go and fix these vulnerabilities. Go and fix these lint issues, go and fix these issues, because I don't want to push my application with all these abilities. But like, I mean, I was working with a guy yesterday is building an application, a mobile app, and he's like, I'm vibe coding. But I guess I have no idea what I'm looking at.

00:11:08:03 - 00:11:28:23
Unknown
I have no idea. And like, that's scary to me. Like, you're you're building an enterprise application and you have no idea what you're looking at here. And you're like, publish it. And you already got clients. I'm like, that's scary, right? Because then that's where you come in with a third party vendor has an vulnerability. And now the enterprise company accepted their application and now they're acceptable to any vulnerabilities that they have.

00:11:29:00 - 00:11:46:04
Unknown
But that's where they can use can ninja right. Yeah. Before they like take it out, roll it out to customers. Exactly. And then if you do roll it out will catch it and say, hey you, you have this vulnerability in this application. It needs to be fixed and updated. So this is something you've been kind of working on alongside your full time job.

00:11:46:04 - 00:12:12:18
Unknown
So what made you kind of finally make that leap and say, you know, now is the time and it's just, honestly, I think it was I was tired of hearing the news of all these people getting their data leaked and, you know, getting hacked and, and, like, it really shouldn't be this difficult. And so, like a big push, what we were trying to do is let's make vulnerability or vulnerability management affordable for everybody, even these startups.

00:12:12:18 - 00:12:30:04
Unknown
Right? Because like, you go to a startup and like they don't think about cyber security, they're not thinking about vulnerability management. They're just going, look, I think we need skin. I just need protection, right? Yeah. Yeah. And like the, the the cybersecurity side of it and the security aspect of it always comes in at the end because it's not the top priority.

00:12:30:04 - 00:12:45:05
Unknown
Yeah. Because you're top what the top priority is revenue. Revenue. So their revenue you get revenue. You go get sales. Like once you do that don't worry about everything else. But I'm like, okay, so you go get revenue and sales. You onboard 1000 customers and then the next day you get hacked and all your stuff's on Reddit for sale.

00:12:45:07 - 00:13:03:01
Unknown
Yeah. I mean, it's like it's nice when you don't have any value, but then the moment you do. Yeah. Yeah. It's like that risk, right? Like, people don't. Yeah. Like I always say like. And I've said this to you like cybersecurity just so no one sees it. Right? Until it happens. And so you're just like, no, no, why is anyone going to come after me?

00:13:03:02 - 00:13:20:06
Unknown
It's like, why would that. Yeah, why. But until until all of a sudden they there isn't a reason. Yeah yeah yeah. But even then what you realize is what you, what a lot of people don't realize is 80% of, of hacks happen to medium to small. Oh, I'm sure because they're, they're not resourced to defend and go and recover.

00:13:20:06 - 00:13:40:07
Unknown
Yeah. Yeah. No they don't understand. Right. Then this is why we use Azure. That's why we use Microsoft at our company. But you see that you see at Microsoft the Microsoft conference two years ago, they literally came out and said our system is not secure on its own. You have to build a secure it's all the other stuff that's like the backup and the recovery.

00:13:40:07 - 00:14:04:23
Unknown
And yeah, it's having the like, okay, cool. And we got hacked and then we launched the team because they didn't set to have a properly. And I was like, no, we're doing this guys. Yeah. Yeah. And then in but like anyways just last week I think I saw a post. It was lovable Adobe. Anthropic and like two other companies all got hacked last week.

00:14:05:01 - 00:14:25:04
Unknown
Oh, wow. And big names. Yeah. And lovable. All their information was on some dark web for like $2 million for the whole data set. Like every person's information, passwords, all that time they spent building that. Yeah. And it's only $2 million, but 2 million. A lot of money for, for a hacker. Yeah. You think about a second, I mean, I I've met guys that, you know, or they say that they're hackers.

00:14:25:04 - 00:14:45:02
Unknown
They've told me they've made, like, 6 or $7 million a year and just off ransomware pace. Yeah, yeah. And so and that's the other issue, the whole market. Yeah. The ransomware insurance side of it, like the insurance policies are too cheap for what you're getting because you pay five, $600 a year for ransomware policy, and then you pay that out, but then it's like, okay, well, where's your moral aspect to that?

00:14:45:02 - 00:15:05:14
Unknown
Like, yeah, you're okay with just like I just if I get ransomware that just paid off and I don't care what happens to the data, I'm just back in business and like, it's not right. Like yeah yeah, yeah. So, tell me about the name. So the name, the story was I've told it a few times.

00:15:05:16 - 00:15:21:11
Unknown
I'm sure it's changed a couple of times the way I've told it, but it because it was 2 or 3 years ago and thought about the name. But it was essentially we were just like somebody made a joke about, like, we're just a bunch of ninjas in the system scanning the systems. Right. And this because, like, goes back to like what you said, right?

00:15:21:11 - 00:15:42:16
Unknown
And so, when you're in cybersecurity, if everything goes perfect, nobody's talking about you. Nobody's praising you because, oh, I'm running the system. I we we've never been hacked. Right? But like, that was a big thing when I was in DevOps, right? We we send each other screenshots and brags like, hey, man, this server's been running for two years straight, hasn't gone down once.

00:15:42:16 - 00:16:01:22
Unknown
Right? And guys like I restart mine every week. It's like it's a screenshot. I'm like, dude, I have never restarted mine in two years. It is going me, you know? But it's the same thing, right? So nobody's talking about you when you everything's perfect. But then everyone knows who you are when everything is bad. I mean, CrowdStrike is the perfect example of that, right?

00:16:01:22 - 00:16:25:02
Unknown
There are so big. Nobody knew who they were. They're doing great things. And then they send one update that breaks the wall. Yeah, yeah. The whole internet went down for yeah, yeah. Airlines crash everybody like and so it's like the whole world now knew who CrowdStrike was. Right. Now I'm not going to say they probably gained an additional 20 or 30% of customers off that because they're like, oh, these guys are getting used by the airlines and everyone else.

00:16:25:02 - 00:16:45:04
Unknown
So they must be good. They just had one hiccup, right? And so but that's the reality, right? Nobody knew who they were before the incident. And everyone in their brother knew who they were after the incident. Right. And so it's kind of that's a cyber security. Right? So that's why we're like we're essentially just a bunch of ninjas and nobody knows where we are, because the reality is, and somebody made it.

00:16:45:06 - 00:17:03:19
Unknown
I remember even one time somebody was hacking. That's like, because most adversaries will get into a system and sit dormant for a year or two, before they even act, I act anything, right? So that's why, like we're saying, like the small business, small, you know, medium size. And what they'll do is they'll get into the system, let's see the data dormant.

00:17:03:21 - 00:17:20:17
Unknown
They'll just have their application in there running. You'll if you're not scanning for it, you're not monitoring you never going to see it. They wait till you get like a, you know, series a fund or something. And then they go okay cool. Now or series they raise and then they come in and they go, okay, now they got a raise, they got money.

00:17:20:18 - 00:17:33:18
Unknown
Let's go ahead and take all the dirty looks, data, because the scanning images are going to come now because they have money to pay the ransom. Yeah. Because they pay them. They have the money to pay the ransom. Okay. You got a cool boom. Now we go sell that. We're either going to sell your data or you give us $2 million.

00:17:33:18 - 00:17:51:15
Unknown
We know you just close the 10 million raise like, you know, like you for it. Yeah, yeah. Oh, wow. And that's what I do. I didn't know that was such a market. Oh, it's a huge market. Yeah. It's like cyber is such a country that a lot of people like to move to. Yeah. So, which you touched a little bit on your link to kind of these desperate parts.

00:17:51:15 - 00:18:07:18
Unknown
Yeah. I think we focus on the detection. But there's also remediation. Remediation? It sounds like it's putting in a script or a patch, but you're putting in really the the. I don't want to call it a middleware because it's not that, but it's it's is it an orchestration layer. How do you describe it that kind of brings these things.

00:18:07:18 - 00:18:27:19
Unknown
So we give you the steps. The process is to do it. But we also offer offer our services to help you do it right, especially for companies that don't really know or aren't comfortable. Do another. So we'll go okay, cool. Like here's here's what you should do and how you should fix it. And here's the scripts. Right. But like if you have trouble like doing the executing them reach out contact.

00:18:27:19 - 00:18:51:03
Unknown
This will help you. Right. Because the biggest thing we do with all of our customers and our clients is we do. This is if I know I've done this, every company ever built, it's we build partnerships. We don't build just customer client relations. Right. And so it's like, okay, we're in this with you. We want to see you succeed because I'm a big I will be that first cybersecurity company that's going to advertise that like, hey, this company, we've been working with this for X amount of years and they've never been hacks.

00:18:51:03 - 00:19:08:09
Unknown
Right. Like that's a huge milestone for us. And that's kind of where I want to be. But I want to advertise that put out some press releases on it. Right. Try to make that a more known thing to celebrate. Right. And so we build these partnerships. And so if you're having issues trying to get those things done, we do that.

00:19:08:09 - 00:19:33:22
Unknown
But then in the application itself, we also built a whole project remediation like project. Think of project management for cybersecurity. Right. And so we built this whole module in the application that allows you to do that puts a value behind that creates the task automatically and allows you to assign them to people. And so interesting. So it's, but is there not a tool like that or does everyone use JIRA today for that?

00:19:34:00 - 00:19:50:06
Unknown
Right. Yeah. When it's funny, it's funny that you guys are. Yeah. I'll let a little secret out on this one. I didn't want to build this out. Yeah. I was like, there's all these other tools that already do this. Why are we building this out? And I'm not even kidding. I think it was like 2 or 3 in the morning one day.

00:19:50:06 - 00:20:08:07
Unknown
And like, I think I was arguing with tags or like GitHub Copilot and I was like, you should build this. And I was like, whatever, build it, I'm going to bed and and showed I just let it build while I was asleep. I woke up the next day. They built this whole whole thing. Oh, and I was looking at it.

00:20:08:07 - 00:20:20:16
Unknown
I was like, that's cool. I was like, I was like, I was like, let me check the code. I was like, I reviewed all the code. And then I was like, yeah, it looks all right. And then I was like, I just pushed it, let it go. And it's not like the prettiest module in our system. Yeah, but it works.

00:20:20:16 - 00:20:35:15
Unknown
Yeah. And it was funny was that I would sit in these calls with these customers and we'd go to that part of the application, and it was something in like, wait, tell me more about this. Like, this looks cool. And I was just like, do you want to build this? And it's so funny, but that's what you discover.

00:20:35:17 - 00:21:01:11
Unknown
That's kind of counterintuitive too, because it's like the, you know, the the, recommendation always is like, focus on your use case. Focus on the one thing, where you try value. And, it's unknown, counterintuitive that you would replace something like a generic because, sure, it's amazing. Like when you think about the whole package, but you're, you're addressing, an adjacent problem they have, which is like just keeping it all in one place.

00:21:01:12 - 00:21:19:23
Unknown
Yeah. And being able to manage across that sprawl. And then it was also like just great for project manager. But then like, you have to figure out how to make it map. Oh yeah. Right. And so what happened was this thing was able to make the our project management module map directly to like assets and vulnerabilities and like build a map, make it map.

00:21:20:05 - 00:21:35:06
Unknown
And then what was really cool with that is then you can say, okay, these are all fixed like let's go risky and invalidate all these impacts. Right. And so it'll trigger a scan and go validate the remediation plans on those and go, yeah, all of these have been fixed. Right. And so having all that in one place is huge.

00:21:35:08 - 00:21:57:19
Unknown
It's like customized for what you're trying to do. And you're it's just not right. And sometimes like you're trying to force fix some of these other tools to do what they're not really meant to do. Yeah. So what what is your business model then? Do people come in and sign a subscription? How do you make money? Yeah, we we do yearly subscriptions, but we do break them down into monthly payments.

00:21:57:21 - 00:22:17:13
Unknown
Right. And so we have a discount obviously if you pay all upfront year, but then we have the monthly payments. And so then we have a tokenization model as well. So like our primary customer honestly is like MSPs. And MSPs which then allows them to have a multi-tenant so they can they get this multi-tenant thing where they can manage multiple companies within the platform.

00:22:17:13 - 00:22:36:13
Unknown
And then so now that you've got the ability to manage multiple companies, and that's what kind of separates us from like the tangibles of the world, right? The tangible like tangible requires you to have a license per company. Whereas we go you just have a license per the account, like you'll get an MSP license, and then it allows you to build as many employees you want as MSP stand for, master service partner, kind of.

00:22:36:15 - 00:22:59:06
Unknown
Yeah. No, it's managed service provider and insurance provider. And then MSP is managed security service provider. So okay. And so MSI ESPs are more like the security side. So they just manage all your security aspects. Was like a spider man. So this would be and I'm going to translate this maybe I think we would call this like a value added reseller, like someone who provides the consulting alongside.

00:22:59:06 - 00:23:16:02
Unknown
And you're, you're, you're another tool in the tool just for that for their customers. Yep. And we make it easier for them to manage your customer's data right. And so and so you can build a threat landscape, build his executive reports on their platform and then and be able to show these to the customers like here's your lines, your threat landscape.

00:23:16:02 - 00:23:35:12
Unknown
Here's what your your world looks like in the dark web world. Right. And then kind of show them that. And here's your, you know, effective like, chance of being, you know, hacked or having the vulnerability put in place or having all your information stolen. Right? So we give it a I think we call it a threat landscape.

00:23:35:13 - 00:23:52:12
Unknown
Yeah. So, so, so we would say like so if I were to get it I would say get the subscription. And then would I like go on a dashboard and like occasionally check. Would it give me notifications. Like how does it work. Yeah. So yeah there's a dashboard right. That you can see kind of highlight of everything. But then you do get the notifications.

00:23:52:12 - 00:24:13:08
Unknown
You get email notifications on completions, scans of vulnerability sounds. There's emails and then there's a mobile application that we're rolling out that's a like a slimmed down version that will allow you allow you to see kind of high level things, and then you'll be able to get push notifications, real time. So, yeah. How sophisticated of a business do I need to be to, to use something like Skin Ninja?

00:24:13:08 - 00:24:17:20
Unknown
Do I need a IT department of ten people?

00:24:17:22 - 00:24:39:01
Unknown
And so that's a that's a tough question, especially in today's world, because you're getting these billion dollar companies like like 5 billion. Yeah. Okay. Fine. If you department or two people phrase the question, I mean, it's just really realistically if you're any kind of a software company, right. If you're doing anything either on prem or cloud or anything like that, I think it's I think it's vital to have something in place.

00:24:39:01 - 00:24:58:17
Unknown
If you. So what about companies who use software like, I don't think there's a company that exists that doesn't, I don't want to call an ERP but have the equivalent of a CRM plus, you know, managing and spreadsheet plus a customer portal, right? I mean, that's where they need something like scanning. And sure, if there's if they have, like, I don't know, this skin, this is a good fit for them.

00:24:58:17 - 00:25:21:12
Unknown
Okay. There are other platforms that would help with that. And so it is more on the application layer where someone's building an application that. Yeah. And have customer data on. Yeah. If you look at data it's usually months. And and almost anybody it's dealing with data right. You're handling data and you're you're dealing with transactions. You're meeting compliance work like that kind of stuff like the compliance side.

00:25:21:12 - 00:25:38:00
Unknown
I think is where you're the only part that you could probably utilize, right, is because like, I'm I don't need software to need a soc2 compliance. Right. It's just more of like checking policies and your procedures. And it's like, so you could say that you can go and get those enterprise customers and they can. Do you have your soc2 like, yeah, actually we did.

00:25:38:00 - 00:26:00:18
Unknown
We just got it. Or we're working on it, like because that's the other thing is we can, we will issue letters like that. You're sometimes in work and like, you know, here's the expected date, the completion. And so that way you can give the potential clients. And so that's why I tell a lot of our customers, like, use it as a marketing tool, like, like use it as, like I have this in place.

00:26:00:18 - 00:26:26:18
Unknown
And that's why our values higher because we're thinking about security early on, especially in today's age. Right. Thanks for listening. If you're fundraising now or know someone who is, I want to tell you about saffron, our investor relationship management product for energy tech founders. Think of it as a CRM built for energy fundraising. Use our recommendation engine to find the right investors faster, and then track every conversation and stay connected through your raise.

00:26:27:00 - 00:26:46:18
Unknown
There's a free tier so you can start today at no cost. That's key. We're on ecom now. Thanks. And back to the show. So like a company like Exxon it's not for them. It's more for anyone who's developing itself. Could be a person. Could be excellent excellent excellent has a lot has a lot of data. But it's not like a software company.

00:26:46:18 - 00:27:02:09
Unknown
Right? Right. But it's has it's of data. Who has data okay. Yeah. So it's not just software companies, it's anybody really has data. Yeah. Or systems where a lot of their operational data is stored. And yeah. And if you have data that's like you're wanting to kind of keep confidential and classified. Yeah. Which they have a lot of.

00:27:02:09 - 00:27:27:08
Unknown
Yeah. Yeah. Excellent. Big on that. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah okay. Interesting. So how has it been then, making that leap and starting your own company? What have you learned? It's tough. It's hard. Yeah. But that's what I would say, right? Like, if it was easy, everybody would do it. Right. And it's tough. Is a lot of long days a lot of long nights.

00:27:27:10 - 00:27:44:04
Unknown
But I think the reality of it like, it's all worth it because the whole goal of it and this is the this is on is the first company I ever built where my goal wasn't to just go make a ton of money. My goal was to like, go and actually do something and make the world better, and securing data and securing people's information, because I think that's more important than anything.

00:27:44:06 - 00:28:00:09
Unknown
It's like, let's build a better, safer world. And then like, people are coming to me now and then what are you gonna do? You know, what are we gonna do about methods? And last thing. And I'm like, I think it's great because it's going to help find things that nobody else is finding, and we're going to be there to be able to help you fix it.

00:28:00:11 - 00:28:25:19
Unknown
So if anything, it actually helps us a lot because now we're like, hey, look, you're going to have vulnerabilities. Everybody is right and vulnerable always and every day. Mythos is just finding vulnerabilities that nobody's ever seen because it's thinking differently. And so our new AI agent, I can't wait till we go live with that because we're in the middle of training new models with agents that are building scenarios that nobody else is thinking about.

00:28:25:21 - 00:28:41:15
Unknown
Right. And so, like it was, it was like a punch in the chest, like, hey, here's mythos. And I was like, oh, they beat us. But, you know, it's like they're a huge company. And, you know, it was bound to happen. But it's for me, it's like a market validation. Yeah. Because it's like, well, I met somebody last week.

00:28:41:15 - 00:28:54:07
Unknown
They're like, there's like 20 other companies do what you guys are doing. I'm like, that's great, because that means there's a market. There's a market. Absolutely right. Like if I was the only one doing it, then of course that's a worrisome thing, right? That's why you when you make your investor deck, you don't say you're going for the whole team.

00:28:54:12 - 00:29:09:18
Unknown
Yeah. You know, even if I get the 20%, like, I can still make it into a game. One of the things I think was interesting, I forgot who I was listening to an interview with Hewlett Packard, and they were talking about acquisitions that were making and, this acquirer was talking about, like, how did they choose between two companies that look the same?

00:29:09:20 - 00:29:36:05
Unknown
And, the woman said, well, we bought the company that had better sales IP. They knew how to sell customers better. Yeah. And even though there were smaller, it was clear that they like, had a way to get to their ISP and had a way to repeat that. And I think one of the things with software that is invisible is it's not the code, it's the can we identify ExxonMobil and get into them or other kind of equivalent customers, because that's that's very defensible.

00:29:36:05 - 00:29:52:18
Unknown
And hard for people who are not in the industry to understand. And so you're coming from energy, I guess, is that that's a question of, are you finding pickup in this industry or where are you finding kind of the initial customers does that? Yeah, I mean, our initial customers are more of the smaller size companies, not Exxon's of the world.

00:29:52:18 - 00:30:10:00
Unknown
But even like within Houston, are they geographically? There's a couple here in Houston. Okay. I mean, so we have two customers that are based out of Houston. Yeah. And one of them, like, people don't even realize they're a company, but like, people like you touch this stuff every. If you've ever stayed at like, a marriott, you've worked with their or even like they build the kiosks.

00:30:10:01 - 00:30:26:16
Unknown
Right? Okay. Yeah. And so like when you go order like drinks or food at the like kiosks at the interface you play with, like we protect that system. Right. And so it's a company called seats. They deal they were working a lot with the MLB last year, too. A great company. And then we're working with Shaw, I.

00:30:26:21 - 00:30:40:04
Unknown
Oh, yeah. And so they're basically an enablement company, and they're doing really big things too, in the, in the industry. And so, you know, and it was funny with that conversation, I was like, look, you guys are gonna need soc2. And he's like, I don't know. And then he calls me the next week, hey, what do you like?

00:30:40:06 - 00:30:55:12
Unknown
It's like I told you, but we have soc2 on our roadmap to you for next year. Yeah, it sounds like you guys are gonna need it real soon because you guys are working with, like, the, you know, Schlumberger of the world and stuff. That's like, so you're going to need it. But like and so we're having that.

00:30:55:12 - 00:31:17:09
Unknown
But then the other part of it is really, I think most of the other customers that we're dealing with that we're getting are that MSPs of the world, and they're from everywhere from like Chicago and Washington DC, and not many from Texas. Right? Yeah. So is that a unique channel strategy, like when you compare, like the others who are kind of in the space, I, I don't know, I would think so.

00:31:17:11 - 00:31:32:05
Unknown
Because I think most people really try to do, like what we tried to do at first was kind of like, let's go after fintech and let's go after. And so we just we've had to morph and adjust, right? That's what it's like. It's really tough, right? But you got to figure out where you're going and then you got to be able to pivot right.

00:31:32:05 - 00:31:53:09
Unknown
That's the biggest thing to stay successful. Right? Yeah. You just learn by being out there. Yeah exactly. Yeah. Do you tell tell us about one of those pivots. What was a pivot you made that you think made all the difference in the last, I think the pivot was the, like, drilling down more on the, on what makes us the right people versus, the platform.

00:31:53:13 - 00:32:09:08
Unknown
Right. And so I think that was the one thing like I learned early on was I was selling the product so much, I wasn't like selling the solution. Right? I was like, here's the problem, here's the product. And I was like, well, what is the product? Oh, I want to give. Let me tell people what the solution is, right?

00:32:09:08 - 00:32:27:03
Unknown
It seems like. But then learning as like I was talking through those with multiple people, multiple potential customers was like figuring out what they were leaning in on. And that was like developer actually taught me that was like, what, what they lean into and then like, go after that, right? And so that's what we were doing. And so we were focusing on that.

00:32:27:03 - 00:32:42:04
Unknown
And what's funny is like we did some of what Joe Alpert did, right. Like we were here's our product. This is what we're doing. And then like, that's not what we sell. Now we're selling like the soc2 compliance of the world. And then like we're selling the product remediation side of it. And like, those are the things that people really want.

00:32:42:06 - 00:33:00:09
Unknown
Like vulnerability management. They're like, you're just like another app. You gotta listen to what the customers are saying. Right? And I think that's the number one thing that people get wrong is they get so like hooked into their product. Yeah. And so like when you're talking to customers. Yeah. You got to start using their language. Yeah. Well and it for me coming from Exxon I remember at Exxon.

00:33:00:11 - 00:33:19:04
Unknown
Yeah. Depending on what team you're on depending on what peripherals you got. If you were on the like the drilling team you got the big monitors, you got the nice blue, you're on the building systems team where you're just an expenditure like you got the little bitty 19 inch monitor left over from last year, literally the computers. And like, hey, I need a better computer.

00:33:19:04 - 00:33:33:22
Unknown
Like, you don't have the budget, you know? And I was like, but if you're, like, I remember when I was on the on the Wells team and I was like, I needed 32 inch. But I was like, sure done. You got two 32 inch monitors. I would get 230. I got the highest performance computer you could buy, like, then buy me a really nice headset.

00:33:33:22 - 00:33:48:23
Unknown
And I was like, I never got any of this in my other team. And so when I was doing this and I remember sitting there like, how do we like it? We were struggling trying to get our first couple customers right. And it was like, how do we get to that point? How do we how do we market?

00:33:48:23 - 00:34:05:03
Unknown
This is a product. And I was like, I was like cybersecurity. I kept thinking, cybersecurity is an expensive it's a CapEx. Right. And so it was like, how do we flip it to where it's not a CapEx? How do we flip it to where it's a marketable thing? And that's why I said into like that's an upside. Yeah.

00:34:05:05 - 00:34:26:21
Unknown
Yeah, I was like and so I was teaching these customers like, look you can use this to sell added value to your deals. Right. Like the reason we cost as much is because we can guarantee you that we're secure, you're secure, and that your data is secure with us. You can trust us, right? Because trust was a big thing that I learned too, is the world is like, who are you?

00:34:27:00 - 00:34:48:00
Unknown
Why should I go with you? Why should I trust you with all my information? Right. And that allows you to kind of price it differently to versus it being a cost expenditure. Right. So yeah. Because then you can get it from a different budget. Yeah. And talk to us about that. Because a lot of you know being out there getting your first like 50 customers is about figuring out okay what what is their willingness to pay.

00:34:48:02 - 00:35:05:21
Unknown
So how do you work around. Oh that's crazy. When I went down that that was just like here's this price, here's this probably like what price works right here are my two cheap and my two expensive. Like, you talked to one guy and he's like, you're way too cheap for the next guy's like, you're way too expensive. I'm like, well, where am I supposed to be?

00:35:05:21 - 00:35:23:08
Unknown
You know? And I remember having this conversation with the gentleman that ran, he found no VM, I think is the name of the company. The robotics company. And so they built humanoid robotics back before the other company that I did, and this is years ago. And he's like, he couldn't sell these humanoid robotics, and he's like, I'm losing money.

00:35:23:08 - 00:35:40:22
Unknown
We're building these robotics. Nobody's buying them. So he's pivoted, said, okay, well, let me sell servos. Where are they building the servos? I'll just so several actuators. So then he was marketing the servo actuators, I think. Yeah. I mean I don't know the numbers exactly, but say it was $10,000 a servo, right. He's like our $10,000, the servo shredder.

00:35:41:03 - 00:35:58:17
Unknown
And then he was like, nobody is buying them in the news. Like, okay, this is weird. And this. And they raised the price to 30,000 sold out. If you've been taught for two years how to build a new facility to build more isolators, and he asked one of the customers, why didn't you guys buy these from you at 10,000?

00:35:58:17 - 00:36:15:20
Unknown
And the customer responded, I know you guys are a real company guy, that we're going to get cheap product. And he goes, it only cost me like $6,000 to make these things. And so he was. And now I have to sell like $30,000 because it's a whole perception of volume value. Yeah, right. It's the whole perception of value.

00:36:15:20 - 00:36:35:02
Unknown
And then dairy value numbers obviously change depending on what your spending orders are. Right. So I think so I know in industrial technology I had a, sales, advisor and we were doing like equipment and selling, motors. And he was like, yeah, lowest price. No one ever sells anything at list. We sell to the distributor at 60% off.

00:36:35:02 - 00:36:56:23
Unknown
Right. And the quotes are always 30% off. And, and I, I've taken that to heart with our products like we list high. Yeah. Because I know like if we get in a real conversation we can always discount. You can't go the other way, but you're really going to add to your price early and often. And so, we do that because, because we're selling to a customer who used to that kind of industrial mindset.

00:36:57:01 - 00:37:13:22
Unknown
And it's funny how that, that, frames people, but then you flip it on the other side of that, never discount, because when you discount, you reduce in value. Oh, to the people on the, on the internet. Now we never discount. But you know, Gary, I'll give you one. But I was taught that from another. Guys like you never discount.

00:37:13:22 - 00:37:27:20
Unknown
That's what that's like when you walk into like, it was like I think it's CarMax. They don't negotiate pricing like it's like your brand. Right. What do you want your brand to be. Yeah. And if you're a brand that's like, you know, it will easily budge on price and it's like okay, what is it really telling you?

00:37:27:21 - 00:37:45:05
Unknown
What's the real value. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because then what you what happens is then you work on the other side because I know some people that work on the other side of one of our competitors. I'm not going to drop the name. And they see these prices that they give for like SoC two, for example. And the prices range between 10,000 to $50,000 depending on the customer.

00:37:45:07 - 00:38:04:15
Unknown
And when I thought about it, I was like, okay, I kind of get it because it's like the amount of work, right? Or you've got more people, you got less people, like, okay, I could see the price adjustment there, but with today's age, like you're not doing any of the work. The AI is now going out doing all the work for you and your prices are still the same.

00:38:04:15 - 00:38:21:09
Unknown
Like your ranges are still the same. You're using that old pricing model like fix your pricing model. And so that's what we came into to do is we came in to disrupt the system. We started advertising our prices on our website, and then we actually got asked by multiple vendors to take it off. They're like, can you guys please take out the pricing because you're just like making everybody upset.

00:38:21:09 - 00:38:36:15
Unknown
And I was like, oh, cause you were undercutting vendors because we were cheaper than most people. Okay, right. And so we don't we don't advertise that on our marketing side, but we still have advertising on our dashboard to if you sign up for our free trial, you can see the prices. And so it's like, or, you know, you come to us like that's our price.

00:38:36:15 - 00:38:51:04
Unknown
Our price is what it is. We don't discount it. We only we do discount, but we do discount. You pay the year of free like, it's like 10%, but like our price is what it is. We don't discount you because the key is to right. You create the value. If you have the value there, there's no reason to discount it.

00:38:51:06 - 00:39:08:05
Unknown
Yeah, it's also about finding the right customer too, because they don't value. It's time to move on. Exactly right. Yeah. Yeah. It's like who do you spend your time trying to convince. Right. Go for the easy ones. You know the sales pitch right. Like yeah the $30,000 sale is just as hard as the $3,000 though. So.

00:39:08:05 - 00:39:37:23
Unknown
Yeah. So, you know, they say we're like, now living in the age of, like, where we're going to see. And some people are already claiming they are like, that first billion dollar company that only has one person for money, right? Yeah. So, like, tell us, you know, how have you gone about thinking around building your company because the companies coming in, you know, today very different from like, even five years ago and how you built, you know, not just your solution, your product, but your whole business around it.

00:39:37:23 - 00:40:01:12
Unknown
Yeah. And I think you're right. But I think where you're where you're you are in smaller teams, but it's because you're when you're in startup, I think the biggest thing is to have the more experienced people. Right. So pay more for that really experienced developer and pay more for your sales team and take care of them and stack your you're going to have more sales guys and you're going to have developers.

00:40:01:12 - 00:40:29:04
Unknown
This is the way we are now, right? It's flipped right back in the back. When I was a developer full time, like we had stacks of developers and like 2 or 3 sales guys. Right. But now with AI, like you can be a solo entrepreneur, build your whole application using, you know, ChatGPT an AI, my opinion is like build your pilot, don't build the full application, build a pilot, get to market and then rebuild it properly with the proper dev team.

00:40:29:06 - 00:40:46:17
Unknown
But I think you're in that point where you can have a smaller team and do ten times as much work, especially when you have all these sequence tools out there for your sales outreach. Like, I mean, I think we're doing yeah, I think my sales team is doing something like 10,000 outreaches a day, like it's a lot.

00:40:46:17 - 00:41:08:06
Unknown
And I'm like, I would have never been able to do this in the past. Yes. Right. And so by sales team, you mean you. Well it's me. And so our team is we have four. Yeah. We have four people in the company now. And so it's me and my co-founder, Ian, and then my sales guy Tim, who's up in Chicago, and then my PM, Allen, who's down in, southern Mexico or like Mexicali area.

00:41:08:06 - 00:41:27:02
Unknown
So, yeah. Yeah. But, no, no, no, we're visiting with a founder who had, multiple email addresses per salesperson. Yeah, I would hit the max on the email. And then because especially you're using Gmail, like, Gmail limits you to only so many emails a day. And then he had, he would rotate like half of them to a healing mechanism.

00:41:27:02 - 00:41:40:20
Unknown
Because what happens is, if you spam two, people like you get a bad reputation. And so half the emails were doing a lot of outreaches. And then the other half and they would get too much bad reputation score. Well, the thing had a whole dashboard to rotate them. You have tools like that. Yeah. So we use a tool called Apollo.

00:41:40:21 - 00:41:58:08
Unknown
Okay. We have I think I have 100 emails. Oh okay. Apollo, one more card. So yeah. So you're sort of get all the domains and then you build all the email we have to follow account. Right. So and so then you can go boom, here's and then it'll do the same thing when you're it would deliver deliverability rate drops.

00:41:58:09 - 00:42:14:03
Unknown
You just put it on top of your dates. That's funny okay. I think he built his own. But I guess Apollo's ticked up on that stuff. Yeah. So it's funny. And they're they're token based, so we actually base our token based model off of theirs. Okay. Okay. Interesting. So we followed, was his named, CEO of Nvidia.

00:42:14:03 - 00:42:32:11
Unknown
I can never pronounce it right. Jan Jensen. Jensen one. Yeah. He is the one that at GTC said the world is going to move to token based economy. Right. And I do believe that I do. Because what's funny is when we were struggling with this, like, how do we charge our MSPs for what we're doing?

00:42:32:11 - 00:42:52:18
Unknown
Like we can't go, here's the MSP account. It's $27,000 a year. And then they go and build 20 different clients. How do you charge? So we built the token based economy in it. And now we figure that out. We solve that issue for them. And then like I think we booked as to in to announce that to the MSP that we're talking to, we have now 15 meetings on the schedule to meet with these guys to move off other platforms.

00:42:52:18 - 00:43:10:20
Unknown
So. And I guess when you say token based that's, that's basically a usage fee. The exact. Right. Yeah. And it's is that tied that it's not tied just to the, the models, your language models you're using. No side to like attrition. Right. Okay. It's tied to like okay I'm going to go run a scan on this network.

00:43:11:00 - 00:43:30:14
Unknown
That's okay. So it's literally so as a user who is probably less technical on when I think I log on Apollo, they call my credits how many you could use. But it's the functionally it's it's a consumable. Yeah. Right. We call them and SNI tokens okay. What does that stand for. Skin engine. Yeah that's an AI tokens. Fascinating.

00:43:30:14 - 00:43:54:11
Unknown
So what do you what do you like the most about like being an entrepreneur. Like what skill that you can really lean into more that you know, you couldn't do before? For me, it's really like the fact that I've got people asking me to mentor them is huge. Like, I've always like been a teacher per se, right? So when I was in military, I was I went to go be an instructor, and that's what I ended up getting me kicked out of.

00:43:54:12 - 00:44:07:13
Unknown
Like when I kicked out, I got medically discharged, because I had to do a medical eval on me about some stuff, but, like, I was like, that was always a teaching person. Like, so even where in my unit, that's what I did. I would take the new kids in, and then I would teach them out of work on the plane or how to do this.

00:44:07:13 - 00:44:23:11
Unknown
Things. And, and I was, oh, I've always been that way. And so even even with coding, like I've taken friends and like, hey, I want to learn how to code. Well, let me show you. Right. And so the developer I was saying about the students who are an entrepreneur, I was actually walking them through last week on setting up his Visual Studio Code and like getting things working.

00:44:23:11 - 00:44:38:09
Unknown
And he's on that. He's like, I have no idea what I'm looking at, but it's working. I'm like, just keep going. You'll figure it out, you know? Like, just don't stop. But yeah, I mean, I have a kid. I have a kid that I mentor from, he goes a year of age and he come into my office once a week and we'd have touch chats about different things.

00:44:38:09 - 00:44:56:06
Unknown
He actually built a whole sales pipeline on his own, like five, kind of. The whole thing. So nice. Yeah, yeah, that is one of the nicest things of, like, having cloud out there is like, I find, using Visual Studio so complicated, because it's like, how do you do a SQL query? And it's like, no, here's, here's the way you're supposed to do this.

00:44:56:06 - 00:45:15:15
Unknown
Now. It's just so much more convenient because you're not you're not tied into that old language. I don't use clogs to get hacked, but I use GitHub copilot. Yeah. Which is good. I mean, but you have cloud models on there. Yeah. And so, like, I my, my favorite model C user signed a 4.6. When I get technical, like, super crazy, I'll, I'll pull up itself.

00:45:15:15 - 00:45:50:06
Unknown
But I was expensive. It is it is very expensive. So, so that's, interesting. Well, when, when you think about, others who might be thinking of taking the job, like, what would you, encourage them to think about, in terms of, starting their own business, live very frugal. Make sure all your finances, you're, like, almost to nothing and then go all in, because the big difference is, like you were saying earlier, I did this on the side for two and a half years on side of my full time job.

00:45:50:08 - 00:46:12:10
Unknown
Once I quit and went full all in the world changed, right? And so my head, I'm going. If only I had had done this two years ago, right, or two and a half years ago, and just went all in, who knows where I would be right ahead. I'd be I'd be way ahead because we were doing some of this stuff that, like, these companies are coming out and they're getting multi-million dollar fund rounds with erase rounds with.

00:46:12:10 - 00:46:26:15
Unknown
And I'm like, we were already doing that two years ago. Right. And then so some of the other things that we learned was we were building a product that we didn't realize tenable was actually watching us. And we took so long to build a product out there, just gave up weight on us, and they weren't built themselves.

00:46:26:17 - 00:46:42:13
Unknown
Right. And so it's like, and then one of the, the VP of sales actually texted me was like, hey, call me. And they actually told me I was like, oh, no, that's crazy. Like if I just know and write about it. But you never know. You never know. What's the best advice is just, yeah, especially in today's world, like speed is the big thing.

00:46:42:15 - 00:47:03:00
Unknown
And so like just just take the leap, jump off, make it happen. If you have the drive and ambition, it'll happen. And if it doesn't, you try. Yeah, right. It's okay. It fails. You learn something, right? Everything you do should be a learning experience. So technically, there's never a failure. It's always success. Yeah, yeah, it's always a stepping stone.

00:47:03:05 - 00:47:21:02
Unknown
Exactly. Say it is. So where do you. Where do you want to be in five years? Can ninja. I want to be able to be where all the big guys are. I mean, I made a joke years ago that I was. One day I'm going to have the Superbowl commercial, and I'm just waiting to check that box because that was the real commercial, right?

00:47:21:02 - 00:47:37:01
Unknown
Like I've never seen a cyber security. So I really think it's falling aside. So like one of the founders we interviewed I think was like episode 15, he did this like a fake Super Bowl commercial. It could be a fun, like, inter tech site for, like, who can do the best. Yes. Oh, he should do that.

00:47:37:03 - 00:47:56:12
Unknown
Look, I could be a pilot of this side. Yeah, that'll be fun. Like, who wins? And this was ridiculous because it was at the era when, like, everything was, like, very meme worthy. But I loved it. Oh, yeah. That's maybe this next year we'll we'll gear up for fun. That'd be fun. And those fun things are what really goes back to your question about those things.

00:47:56:12 - 00:48:13:16
Unknown
The networking events, the community. That's what I love the most. And I think that's why I'm like so happy with where I'm at now, even though, like, I'm making no money, know, it's like I'm super happy because it's like I get to hang around with some cool people like you guys and like, go to these events. Like, we just we just launched the Latinas Founders Forum.

00:48:13:16 - 00:48:32:09
Unknown
Our first kickoff is gonna be on Tuesday. And so it's like, you know, it's going to be awesome, right? And to be able to do those things is what's really cool, right? So so if anyone listening wants to help you, support you on your journeys or anything, they can, you know, what are you looking for right now that could really help you take the leap?

00:48:32:11 - 00:48:52:17
Unknown
What am I looking for? Yeah, I mean, it's I, it's just conversations advisory. Yeah. We're looking we're we're doing a, an angel race with ten slots of $50,000. It's like anything to kind of to to kick us off. Right. And so that's kind of where we're at. But at the same time, like, I know that like you were saying, we were saying higher revenues.

00:48:52:17 - 00:49:10:23
Unknown
King. Right. So I also want to like build the product to where like it's the best product out there and everybody wants to use it because the product sells itself and that's the goal. Cool. Well, thanks for myself. So I guess how do people find here at Scan in July? Yeah, right. Okay. Ninja, that is our website. We're on all the social medias.

00:49:11:00 - 00:49:21:13
Unknown
You can even just Google or ask Claudie to ask Claude or ask copilot here in Gemini about scanning to find it for you. So awesome. Thank you so much. Thank you guys for having me. Yeah. Good.